Follow on Blogger Home Join The Network Become An Author Contact
Twitter Facebook Digg Stumbleupon More

Friday, 2 September 2011

Discussion:Chaplain Or Librarian?

So I was looking through the codex, which I haven't stopped doing since I've had it, and was debating over whether or not I think the Librarian is the thing for me.

Granted I absolutely love the model.

This one to be precise.

I mean the sculpt is just fantastic and really fits everything that I can imagine a Librarian to look like.

But then I was thinking of the role in which I was setting him.

Being a leader for my Assault Terminators to GOI round the board.

Which sounds like a fair plan, if indeed it works.

Null zone with all the psychers running in the game seems like a no brainer really.

But running him with just Terminator Armour isn't really ideal so I have him with a Storm Shield to give him survivability, which for 140 points isn't bad really.

Then I got to the chaplain, which had not been suggested to me in the past and I rarely see hardly at all, and thought I'd give him a fair once over.

So then I realised that he is quiet the utility belt. He has a bunch of options at his disposal at just 100 points, boltgun or bolt pistol and Crozius, Rosarius which grants him a nice 4+ armour save against physical and spiritual harm, Frag and Krak grenades and 2 wounds.

Also he has a neat ability to grant any unit he is with re-roll failed hits, which stuck with an Assault Terminator Squad like I was going to do with my Librarian is pretty priceless.

Then lets look at what kind of wargear I'd more than likely run him with. I would probably opt for Terminator Armour for him which then leaves me with a decision to either give him a storm bolter or combi-weapon.

This is another sculpt I rate very highly

It adds to him the ability to shoot before assaulting which I lacked with running the Librarian. I would more than likely just opt for the Storm Bolter which then runs me to 130 points for him. Which I think is pretty good considering what he brings to the table.

I do however reduce my manoeuvrability of the unit and, given my current army builds, have no room to give them a Land Raider to ride around in.

But what I do have is space in Drop Pods and Locator Beacons for the Terminators.

So what I was thinking for both HQ choices is Drop Pod them down to safety with one of Tactical Squads and then use of the Locator Beacons I purchased on said Drop Pod to then Deep Strike the Terminators within 6 inches.

This is where the Librarian would come in handy mostly.

As I have no transport for these Terminators the Librarian would come in handy to GOI me to where I need to be.

Although foot slogging the Terminators, being that they have 2+ armour saves and 3++ inv saves, with the Chaplain maybe a viable option?

It's just something I was thinking about and was wondering what you guys take on the subject is.

I just find it interesting that little to no one who runs Vanilla Marines runs a Chaplain judging by what I read via the interwebs.

Especially not running him the way I am proposing.

Most of the time if they run him, he is in a Land Raider. Land Raiders are my next topic but we shall get to that later.

Thanks guys, help a n00b out haha.

*EDIT* Due to a massive response indicating in both accounts that a Land Raider is needed I would like to put my thoughts on the Land Raider and why I am a little worried about taking one.

The main factor being is that I am worried that due them being in a Land Raider they are essentially a massive moving target which obviously worries me due to the fact I need it for mobility and losing it straight away would really suck.

One thing I did think though is maybe if I reserved the Land Raider? Is that a viable tactic?

Another thing that has got me thinking is the possibility of Tactical Terminators instead of a hammer unit. I can see the attraction to them but I would lose that inv. save which seems fairly vital.

I will be posting my lists again to see where I can fit in a Land Raider maybe and hopefully you can give me some feedback.

I'd also like to ask you guys if you could just quickly review my lists as having little trouble with making them make sense.

Let me know guys.

Warflake out.

++End Transmission++



  1. I like Chaplains but you really need a ride if you're not sporting a jump pack. Unfortunately that means a Land Raider.

    The reason is simple. The Chaplains best benefit is re-rolls to hit on the charge. If you're deep striking then you're sitting there on arrival and one of three things will occur. The enemy charges you to negate your bonus. The enemy backs off from the unit and you spend all game chasing things on foot. The enemy shoots you in the face to neuter you. The last is the most brutal when done before charging you to negate your bonus.

    If you want to run a Chaplain then consider Cassius. He's a bargain for a T6 model with FNP and a master-crafted combi-flamer on top of the usual stuff. Downside is he's on foot, so Land Raider...

    Now, I also love Librarians. Null zone is damn near, if not, mandatory, as is just having a psychic hood. However, my suggestion is if you want to bounce around with GoI then consider normal Termies, not Assault ones. Using GoI puts you in the same situation as just deep striking, a turn of sitting around. At least with normal Termies you can jump around and shoot while you sit there.

    Which brings us back to Land Raiders. I attach a Termie Librarian to my Assault Terminators in a Land Raider. He has null zone, naturally, and often might of ancients as it synergizes well with the unit's job. I do not get him out of the LR unless forced to for one reason or another. His job is support: psychic hood + null zone. The Termie armor with a storm shield is the backup plan, not for the task at hand. He's really a support character and best used that way in my experience.

  2. Ah I see, you make extremely good points.

    Very helpful.

    I think alot of shifting of units is needed in my army list.

    To be honest on the subject of Cassius I wouldn't run him purely because I'd like to keep my army at least a little fluffy. Being that he's an Ultramarine it makes little to no sense using him in an Imperial Fist fluffy list.

    I am stongly coming around to the idea of a land raider with termies but I just need help with where to organise it so.

  3. I don't know bout the Vanilla marines, but for my Flesh Tearers it's Chappy all the way. I put him in a LRC with 10 death company and wreck shop. Re-rolling hits and wounds is rediculous.

  4. I agree that you don't see many Chaplains these days and most people opt for a Librarian for the psychic powers/defense which has become a bigger deal in 5th edition.

    I just ran a Chaplain on bike in my list for the Nova GT, and depending on what your army needs, Chaplains can be really awesome. They buff my command squad on bikes with the re-rolls to hit and also making them fearless, so no loosing your expensive squad by running off the board! But Thor is absolutely right: you need mobility for your Chappy to make sure you get that charge for the re-rolls to work. The bike gives me that kind of mobility. But if you are looking to add them to a Terminator squad, I would definitely look into a Land Raider.

  5. I completely agree with Thor. The Chaplain is mainly useful for the re-rolls to hit, and that requires you to reliably charge. That means a Land Raider or jump pack. Also, the Chaplain has a fairly soft statline for an assault character, so he is often skipped in favor of a character like Lysander when it comes to accompanying Assault Terminators.

    The Librarian is a great choice for support, but he is even easier to kill than the Chaplain unless you give him a storm shield. I actually just posted something on my blog about what powers are the best, but you are right that GoI and Null Zone are the best choices. GoI isn't as reliable as a Land Raider but is way cheaper. I deep strike Assault Terminators with my Blood Angels, and it can work if you're very aggressive with them. Of course, that carries the risk of a catastrophic deep strike mishap, so it's not for everyone.

    Modeling wise, there's no downside. I think the Terminator Chaplain and Librarian are some of the best Space Marine models out there.

  6. I used a plain librarian in the NOVA Open, and he was definitely one of my MVPs. I used him with GOI and Null Zone to move my tactical terminators around the board. I used GOI and the hood more than null zone, however in a couple games null zone was unbeatable (demons).

    GOI works great if the terminators are a support unit because it allows you to move them whereever they were needed the most.

    I also noticed that almost no one expected it.




Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...