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Wednesday, 7 September 2011

Librarian, Chaplain Or Lysander...

Right well after having asking alot around the web about my list building I have come up with a fair few along the way.

The main decisions are mainly based around the three characters I mentioned.

Also another big factor is whether I should take the Land Raider but we shall get to that.

So here is a bunch of 1500 point lists for you to give advice over.

First up a Chaplain list.

Terminator Chaplain - 130

Assault Terminaters - w/ Land Raider w/multi melta- 460

Dreadnought w/Twin linked autocannon - 125

10 man Tactical Squad w/power fist, melta and missile launcher
Combat squad for Las Razorback - 275

10 man Tactical Squad w/power fist, flamer and missile launcher
Combat squad for Las Razorback - 270

Heavy Support
2 x pred w/autocannon las- 240

Next we have a Librarian list


Terminator Librarian with Storm Shield - 140 GOI and Null Zone

Assault Terminaters - w/ Land Raider - 450

Dreadnought w/2 x Twin linked Autocannons - 125

10 man Tactical Squad w/power fist, melta and missile launcher
Combat squad for Las Razorback - 275

10 man Tactical Squad w/power fist, flamer and missile launcher
Combat squad for Las Razorback - 270

Heavy Support
2 x Predator w/autocannon las- 240

And finally the Lysander list


Assault Terminaters - w/ Land Raider - 450

Dreadnought w/Twin linked Las - 135

Tactical Squad w/Power Fist, Melta, Multi Melta w/ Rhino - 235

Tactical Squad w/Power Fist, Flamer, Missile Launcher w/ Rhino - 230 

2 x Predator w/autocannon las- 240 

Now the thing I find about these lists is that you have this massive target, the Land Raider at such a small point game. I've played a hand full of games and the one game I saw someone use a Land Raider it got shot at alot.
This could be a good thing or a bad thing. Depending on what they are packing of course. But with all the anti tank out there I cant see it working. Unless you think differently?

I do however like the Librarian and the Chaplain lists for different reasons. With the Chaplain list I get a Land Raider with some re-rolling thunder hammers and a multi melta on top of that. With the Librarian list I get GOI in case my transport goes bye bye and I get psychic defence.

Priority Target?

Then we get to the Lysander list. It lacks alot of firepower. Nice idea but I don't think it'd work.

I also have the question of which flavour Land Raider to take? If I take the standard one I get a couple extra Lascannon shots, if I take the Redeemer I get some good anti-infantry and if I take the Crusader I can squeeze in a Lascannon for one of the Combat Squaded Tactical Squads.

I have also built lists which don't include the Land Raiders and instead capitalise on more bodies and firepower. But if you think one of these are viable I'd be happy to build them. I did want to use Vindicators but I think they must just get shot up quicker than the Land Raider and figure Predator's fit Imperial Fists fluff just aswell.  

If you don't like the lists I'll just go with the other ones and decide from there and not bother you with this anymore haha.

This is the list that would be my alternative

Pedro - 175

5 man Sternguard 2 x combi melta 2 x combi flamer 1x power fist- w/rhino - 180

Dread w/twin linked las - 135

Dread w/2 x tl autocannon - 125

10 man Tactical Squad w/power fist, flamer and missile launcher Razorback - 270

10 man Tactical Squad w/power fist, melta and missile launcher squad Razorback - 275

Scout Squad w/missile launcher w/camo cloaks - 100

2 x pred - 240

I was thinking that maybe I could replace the scouts for two cheap melta attack bikes especially considering with pedro making the sternguard scoring.

(I doubt I'll get any replies with the new Space Marine game out haha)


Warflake out

++End Transmission++  


  1. All the lists seem strong, as far as Land Raiders go, the Crusader is my favorite. It has an entire squad worth of shooting available to it, and Frag Assault Launchers which would be beneficial for Assault Terminators, since they don't have grenades.

  2. I don't have much experience with the Vanilla 'dex (go BA!) but it really comes down to your play style that you want to go with. Lysander is great if you plan on playing a game of attrition and hunkering down with gun lines. Yeah he's pretty ok in CC, but his strengths are siege warfare, so the mobility of the army pretty much makes him moot. He would work best with a devastator squad hunkered down in cover that he has reinforced to just blast away at the enemy.

    The libby and chaplain lists look pretty similar, so I would put my vote on either or. I don't normally run my lists with either those ICs so I can't really attest to the strength of it.

    At 1500 I would drop the Land Raider. Yes, it will be a beast and a royal pain to take out, but for the points, you can pump out a couple more squads of something else, cause keep in mind, terminators can deep strike (unless you roll the one or two scenarios that prevent it) so by having them enter in that way, you can get them *roughly* in the area you want.

    At that point cap, the Raider would draw a lot of fire, but you have to decide if you want to risk that many points in a small game like this. If it gets popped, that is a lot of points out the window and will be more felt at this point level than at the higher levels.

  3. I think the lists are quite strong but I do not like the Lysander list simply because well, its Lysander. Though a very good solo model I find that for his pointage value, isnt all that great. He has a good roll with normal Terminators making sure that just about all if not most storm bolter shots hit plus They are also str 8. The Land Raider is always a fantastic inclusion into an army because even though lots of things will be shooting at it, not much will pen. A Lascannon has a 1/6 chance at penning a land Raider and a meltagun has to be within 6 inches or 12 for the multimelta. I just target these first as they are the biggest threat out there. Once you've done that, the Land Raider is free to wreak havoc. Land Raider's worst enemy? LAND SPEEDERS. They can get up close and personal with multi-meltas.

    Anyways, as for which Land Raider to choose, I'd say Redeemer is most effective as you're going to want to get your terminators in and a Flamer Template which is str 6 ap 3 is a fantastic marine killer. The ONLY reason why I would suggest going for the Crusader is if you're a black templar and want to fit 5 Terminators, a terminator Captain, and a Terminator Chaplain into one Land Raider. And don't forget that frag assault launchers on the redeemer/crusader which is excellent for assaulting units in cover.

    I currently run a Chaplain with Terminator Armor and the Thunder Hammer terminators as he allows re-rolls to hit which is AMAZING for taking out units. You're already Str. 8 no need to re-roll wounds. In order I'd say your best choice is the Chaplain then Libraian, then Pedro, then Lysander.

    You are also excellent at painting so I'd like to see what these yellow armies would look like. I dont know if you have pictures up already but post them up if you don't.

    The Scatter Dice Rolls

  4. The first three lists are very similar, with a Land Raider with Assault Terminators, Dreadnought, two Tactical squads with transports, and two Predators. The differences are the HQ and then whatever options you can add to the vehicles with the remaining points.

    Essentially, the Librarian is the tricky, toolbox character, the Chaplain supports his squad in close-combat, and Lysander is a monster on his own. While he does support your armies shooting, he is a monster in assault and extremely durable, and if you're not hurling him into enemy squads, he won't be worth the points. It's up to what you want to add to the army.

    As for Land Raiders, I prefer the Crusader because it produces a lot of firepower reliably. The Redeemer is nice for clearing power armor, but has a more limited range and difficulty bringing both flamestorms to bear on the same target. The standard Land Raider can be useful if you're clever with it, but you get more efficient shooting with Predators and better transports with the other Land Raiders. I wouldn't worry much about the frag assault launchers. They're meaningless if they squad has thunder hammers, and they are really what your Terminators should be taking.

    Land Raiders are priority targets, but they are tough. They really only have to fear railguns and close-range melta. Rather than worrying about how easy they are to kill, I would think about whether you want your army to be so centered around a single hammer unit. Taking Terminators in a Land Raider with a character is roughly 1/3 of a 1,500 point army. It forces you into a certain build with a certain strategy. Dropping them opens your army to lots of possibilities and more flexible armies.

    Your Pedro list looks pretty good. I would stick with Scouts not because of the damage they can do but rather because of how hard they are to kill. They're great for taking backfield objectives and freeing up your Tacticals and Sternguard to advance.

    Another option when taking Kantor is to take 5 Sternguard with 2 heavy weapons. This gives you essentially a scoring mini-Devastator squad. More firepower than the Scout for a bit more points, but lacking the 3+ cover save that make Scouts so durable.




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